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[Ian]

i've read the tip off on overtaking and struggled to put it into practice.

But, on a trip to Le Mans, it worked all the way down the N138.

Why?

My own feelings are:
1. Straight roads  - giving excellent vision
2. Less traffic, therefore giving more time to react and prepare, no hassle
3. had to because you just can't see

came back to england and just carried on doing "banana" type passes.

I've tried my best and put i into practice on roads i travel on frequently but i just can't get it to work i usually run out of "time".

 :yikes:

[Jules]

Hi Ian,

If you are having a problem executing this manoeuvre then there must be an element within what you are doing that you are getting slightly wrong.  My instincts tell me that the problem lies in the preparation stage.

You say that you find that you do not have enough time in which to carry out the procedure.  Is this because you are starting to execute the overtake from too far back?  Every foot of space that exists between the rear of the ?target? vehicle and the front of yours is what we call ?Dead Ground? and represents a distance that has to be made up before you start to pass the target vehicle and consumes a fair amount of the time it takes to complete to whole thing.

Many drivers that we accompany on our driving sessions can initially feel uncomfortable with closing in tight on the vehicle in front during the preparation stage, often wondering if what they are being advised to do constitutes tailgating.  If you were to close in and remain there for any real length of time then yes this would be tailgating, but all you are doing is whilst anticipating the opportunity for completing the overtake you are moving in to get into a state of readiness, which should not see you following closely for more then about 15 - 20 or so seconds.  If you then find the overtake is not on, you immediately drop back again to a safe and comfortable position from where you build it all up again for your next attempt.

Planning, anticipation and observation are the key elements to this, which is something that takes practice, a great deal of thought and experience.  If you remain tight to the target vehicle you will make life difficult for yourself as not only will the driver ahead begin to feel intimidated by your presence, and therefore begin to hamper your progress, but you will not be able to see due to your face being filled with the back end of car/lorry/bus/whatever.  If the view disappears then drop well back and build up your planning from scratch.

Don?t forget that your view of the road ahead does not always appear down the outside as very often you will get your information from an inside view, or through the glass areas of the target vehicle, if it is a car, or a view beneath the vehicle, especially if it a truck or any other high-off-the-ground vehicle usually whilst is is going over a hillcrest.  It is upon these views that you base your decision as to whether or not you are going to side-step your car out to get that unobstructed look beyond the target vehicle.  You will of course already have that most responsive gear engaged so that when you do accelerate you don?t waste time changing gears or plodding through in a gear that is too high in the legs to give you the degree of acceleration you need.

When you do decide to close in make sure you take notice of any advanced warning road signs, such as those warning of junctions, which may cause the target vehicle to reduce speed if that driver intends to turn off.

If you find you are still having difficulty please give us a call.  We are quite happy to chat without pressuring you into spending money with us, although often that will be your best way to get it 100% right.  It really is a very effective and relaxed way to overtake.  I hope this helps.

http://www.pistonheads.com/reviews/reviews.asp?c=62&id=225

[Ian]

well, its coming along.

The main "concern" is the getting in tight behind someone, i just feel uncomfortable with this idea.

Will persevere

[Jules]

Ian,

As long as you only close in tighter in anticipation of an immediate opportunity, and then drop away again if it doesn?t work out, you shouldn?t get into difficulty.  Just be mindful of approaching side road junctions into which your target vehicle may suddenly decide to turn into, or the presence of some other factor that may cause that driver to alter course or speed.  It?s when you close in tight and remain there that you will cause a problem.

Jules :tup:

[XPC316E]

There's no problem with following another vehicle closely when looking for an overtake as long as you are not staring at its brakelights and nothing else.  Look ahead of the target vehicle, and not just at its back end.  If you have the vision, you can justify being there - if you don't have that vision, then you drop back to a following position.  Your instincts are warning you because most drivers in that position let the guy in front make all their driving decisions for them - they get close and just lob out a mental tow-rope.  Practise using your vision and lift your eyes away from the target vehicle.

[Jules]

Hi XPC316E,

I bet that was the index number of an old patrol car 

If you are talking of invisible tow ropes, then you should read the thread posted by Left Foot John.  He had an almost unbelievable incident on theM18 back in the summer with a lady BMW driver.  Have a read yourself.  >Click Here<

Jules

[Stephen7738]

Julian,
Ian, sounds as if he would benefit from one of your Advanced on road sessions or perhaps two if he lives up my way
But, seriously i am sure you will agree there is an art of getting it right as if you get it wrong you might not be able to go over where you went wrong.

Stephen

[Ian]

Julian,
Ian, sounds as if he would benefit from one of your Advanced on road sessions or perhaps two if he lives up my way
But, seriously i am sure you will agree there is an art of getting it right as if you get it wrong you might not be able to go over where you went wrong.

Stephen

i did with you actually and then went onto HPC

where the comment was made "have you been out with the police ian?"

still do those routes and recently had a vxr for three days on test from vauxhall so did them again

did see you in the lowton lights (a580) area but was going the otherway and nowhere to turn round you were probably on apnr

 

see you about

ian



 

[Jules]

Well, its coming along. The main "concern" is the getting in tight behind someone, I just feel uncomfortable with this idea.

Will persevere

Ian, I don?t know if you still visit this forum, but we have just published a section on overtaking in our advanced driving tips and advice section, called Tip Offs.  We have included some video footage to illustrate the points made to try and help people understand Safer Overtaking techniques.

Thought you might be interested.

Jules

[Ian]

yes i do

i thought they were very well presented.

Just a couple of points - use of indicators, horn and lights

my eldest (14 years old) through under 17 car club had an opportunity to drive a police focus st with an inspector, he was told to indicate when overtaking, I?ve been teaching (ha ha) three stage overtakes, but not with indicators, i know from other threads on other forums indicators are not used.

when i went out with steve (gmp) he had me using headlights, now i will if its more than two (but i find it a little aggressive at times).

I notice on the five stage overtake that no signals were given or considered, the last three, in view of the bend and the possibility of the small car going for it as the road opened should they have been "lit up" ??   

And the thorny issue of social gaps and unsocial ones when trying to make progress a problem that vexes me, any pointers?

[Jules]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for your last.  On the topic of signals, as in indicators, when looking at the example overtakes you have seen on the website you have to ask, who is going to benefit?  Take the third video clip for example, the two-car overtake.  You have seen there may be an opportunity coming up and you step the car out to have a good old look.  If you indicated prior to that, what would the driver ahead think (grey Mazda)?  I would suggest she would think that you were going to commit to the actual passing manoeuvre, but really you just want to sit out there and survey the situation more clearly, and it might be that you actually decide to return into line.  In that case an indicator would be more misleading than not using it.

Okay, that accepted, you are out on the off-side and you now decide that you are going to go for the pass.  If you indicate now, what does that say to anyone?  Not a lot really.  Going to pull over to the off side of the road? Wanting to turn right somewhere?  Not clear-cut is it?  You already have position and so you are just remaining there.  Would you go down lane two of a dual carriageway or motorway indicating every time you were to pass another vehicle without changing lanes?  Once out on the off side, your road position does all the talking, and as for the 5-vehicle overtake, and your question about one of the cars pulling out, an indicator will not help you there because your car is already in position, but giving a headlamp flash would be more appropriate if it looked like something was about to go wrong.

You should always anticipate the potential for one of the vehicles in the line to pull out on you anyway, and you hopefully will have noticed how Roger does not go flat out for the whole lot in one hit (5-vehs).  He actually passes quite sedately really and allows for the potential of someone pulling out by building that scenario into the plan.

Turning to the matter of the young driver, someone who has no driving experience, or even very little, is never going to cope with managing overtakes like the ones we have shown and so have to be given the basic stuff ? until they find their feet a little at least. At an early stage in their development, kids do not have the mental reasoning power to make such decisions about when to signal and when not to, and so are always advised to signal for everything.

With regard to social gaps, as long as you do not cause another driver to have to alter course or speed, then there is noting wrong in doing what you are doing.  Cutting in or cutting up is obviously not good, of course.

Jules